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| Starcraft 2 beta; OMFG! | |
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| Topic Started: Mar 7 2010, 12:40 PM (240 Views) | |
| ender42 | Mar 7 2010, 12:40 PM Post #1 |
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Ok, I just got through playing a little bit of the beta, and I have to say HELL YEAH! First off, the beta is only multiplayer mode. So far, I have only had the option of 1v1 and 2v2. The maps you are playing 1v1 on so far are pretty small, but there are usually at least 2-4 additional spots for each person to build extra bases. And you need them. I played through once with each race and so far my preferences are Zerg > Terran > Protoss. The 'Toss are a little nerfed this time, their shields don't feel as strong and the Zealots don't do as much damage as they used to. The Terrans are a little better than before, and the Zerg are always good. Here are a few things I found. First, in an effort to help players be able to build a little more without being slammed by a really early rush, they have walls of rocks in front of each of the ramps that lead out to the main map. You can break them, but they take a minute to break. That means if someone wants to rush, they have to break through their rocks and yours. Of course, the downside to hiding behind them is that you usually only have 1 other spot for a base. If you want to expand early enough to live, then you will have to bust out from behind the rocks and take a risk. There are a crapload of new units. Each race has new units for ground only or air only, and some can switch between the two (at least for the terrans). Zerglings can now morph into Banelings, which can attack a little but can also blow up to damage nearby units or auto-explode near a building for good damage. Be careful you don't have a whole group of them selected when you tell them to blow up though, they don't kamikaze into the nearest enemy first and you will be wasting a bunch of units that way. Hydralisk and Mutalisk appear unchanged, Hydras are still an early weapon of choice and very powerful in groups. I have not gotten to an Ultralisk or some of the other advanced units yet because the games did not last that long. Terrans have new ground-only units that have more firepower or can jump cliffs. These can be pretty useful. Firebats appear to have been replaced by a mechanized unit that is much faster, but they are pretty weak (can't remember their names). Vikings are the air-only ship, but they can pull a Transformer and change to a ground-based unit and back again. Pretty cool to watch. One of the fun things about Terrans was that they have new add-ons for some of the buildings. Barracks now have an addition that can let you build multiple units at the same time, but it limits you to Marines. Still, that can be pretty handy. Another addition unlocks the advanced units for that Barracks. I think Factories and Stargates have similar add-ons, one to let you produce 2 of the weaker units at a time, or one to unlock advanced units. Protoss are a little weaker than before, but otherwise pretty close to the same. Dragoons have been replaced by a similar unit that moves a little quicker. Can't remember the names, but they had other basic units too that did not seem very useful. Did not get as far with the protoss because they take a little longer to build and people kept rushing, so the advanced units are still a mystery. Photon cannons are still the most versatile defensive building because they hit air and ground and have a better range than the barracks with Marines. Build and skill trees appear pretty similar to last time around. Minor differences are like with the Terrans having to have add-ons for a building for it to produce certain units instead of just building one that would unlock them for all. So far the graphics are great. I like how they did not focus on making everything so realistic that you have to have an uber-machine to play it (like Crysis was originally). I was playing this on a new machine I picked up from my dad's work (3.06 dual core, 4 GB RAM, and a 23-inch monitor). The graphics card in it is nothing special, so on the Battle.Net screen where I am picking my race and viewing the results of the last match has a bad habit of glitching around and stuttering, but I think that may just be because of how they have the page laid out. When I am playing a match everything runs perfectly (possibly because I have graphics turned way down, but who cares). All in all I am pretty pleased with the game and can't wait for it to be released so I can play the single player mode too. I can post more after I have played for a little longer. Hopefully I can find an opponent that also wants to build up and agree not to rush so we can see what all the units and buildings can do. Anybody else get a beta invite yet? I would love to play against someone I know. |
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| Onyx | Mar 7 2010, 11:23 PM Post #2 |
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Yeah, but the Protoss have those things that look like the giant walkers from the recent War of the Worlds remake. So I mean... c'mon. If it helps in learning to use them, from what I can gather, the Protoss are much more of a Guerilla Warfare race, doing the thing where they win not because they hit hard, but because they zap around the board six times faster than anyone else, so they can send lightning raids around and stuff. That's what the articles on it made it sound like. Not that I've played a single second of it, so... I mean who knows? |
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| ender42 | Mar 9 2010, 10:56 AM Post #3 |
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Ok. As an update to my last post, I played a little more with the Protoss last night. Luckily I was playing against another Protoss, so we were both a little slow to get started. This is what I found. First of all, pay attention to your unit types. I missed a couple of times where it said that a couple units attacked ground-only (Colossus, the big walker, and the Immortal, sort of like Dragoons, but not exactly) and a ship that was air only (Phoenix). This wound up hosing me because I had troops dying because they could not fight back. I had a large group of ground-only (including the ones I did not realize) and a handful of the ranged attackers and got hosed because he had gotten a carrier built fairly early. By the time I realized some of my guys could not hit the carrier, it was too late to save them. I tried leaving a handful of troops and building a bunch of photon cannons just outside the pile of rocks that was blocking the entrance to his base, but forgot something. Instead of just sending a probe out to build a new base, this guy used the transport ship (Warp Prism) to move to a couple of other bases. I thought I had him stuck with very little resources behind that wall, and he had managed to slide past and continue building carriers. For the Protoss, Carriers are still the end-game unit. I built a bunch (10) of Phoenix ships to try and kill them, but a swarm of 5 carriers could take them out before I killed more than 2 with focused attacks. In other words, if you think that the other person is going to turtle and then carrier-swarm, rush them fast. If I had hit this guy about 2 minutes earlier before he had gotten his carriers built then I would have been ok. Will try more Terrans tonight and see what happens. |
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| ender42 | Mar 10 2010, 02:51 PM Post #4 |
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Ok. Used the Terrans again last night and got to play a little more with them. Some of the later units look massive (like the Thor) but are fairly limited in use. Even the mighty Battlecruisers did not stand a chance against a wave of carriers. I did not get the chance to try the Yamato Cannon on them but that was because my ships were getting destroyed faster than I can build them. It seems like the strategy of choice with Protoss is still to build Carriers ASAP and swarm the crap out of people. Reapers are fun units that are ground-only troops, but they can hop cliffs and can be useful for a sneak attack from behind. Fun trick is to send a group for a frontal assault and then sneak in with a wave of Reapers, they are cheaper and faster than doing it with air units. With air supremacy going to the Protoss it is hard to find a good way around it. So far the air-only units or other air assaults can't take them out fast enough because of the Protoss shields. Anything that you send at the carriers just gets mass-swarmed out of existence. I guess if your opponent is letting the ships auto-attack you might stand a chance, but I wouldn't count on that. Another addition that I neglected to mention before is the new high-yield mineral fields. Your initial base and most of the extra sites will be the standard blue crystals, but scattered throughout the map is usually a couple of high-yield fields that are kind of yellow-orange. Instead of the standard 5 minerals per harvest, these will net 8 (I think). So far I have not found similar vespene resources. Be careful with these because you can be sure that your opponent will want them as well. Won't have a chance to play tonight, but I will try to get some time in on Thursday and post some more. |
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| thedixman2000 | Mar 10 2010, 04:16 PM Post #5 |
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I know that this isn't the Starcraft strategy thread, but since Ender mentioned it, what IS the Terran counter to carriers? The only answer to Carriers that I know is to play Zerg (or Protoss, since they have that one unit that can freeze.) |
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| ender42 | Mar 10 2010, 05:35 PM Post #6 |
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In the past, Yamato Cannon from the Battlecruisers would do some damage, but I'm not real sure. I know that Zerg have the Scourge flying units (or whatever the kamikaze crap are called), but Terrans don't. The air-only Terran ships aren't that powerful, same with the other Protoss ship (Phoenix). Cloaked units might help for a time, but Wraiths are gone and Ghosts don't deal that much damage very quickly. Plus an Observer would kill that strategy. I can research it and try a few things during my gameplay and see what works. I may try to bribe my opponents into making the games last longer so I can see if anything works well... Edited by ender42, Mar 10 2010, 05:37 PM.
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| Onyx | Mar 10 2010, 07:32 PM Post #7 |
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In Starcraft UNO, the terran answer to teh Carriers was the Valkyrie. The little missles it launched only did 5 damage, but they did AOE damage. And they fired lots of them at a time... A Large Squad of those is SUPER devastating to Overlords (since they infinitely stack and are the slowest units in the game), and kinda devastating to Carrier stuff. People would combine the Valkyries with the BAttleships, I think. The other Terran counter to the carriers was to use the Science Vessels to EMP the shields off the Carriers, or Ghosts to Lockdown the carriers. Combine the Science, the Ghosts, AND the Valkyries... and whammo! |
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| thedixman2000 | Mar 11 2010, 06:52 PM Post #8 |
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Yeah, but that's a lot of management, you know? |
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Hey, what's with the silent treatment? Ellipses are for suckers! Talk to me! | |
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| Onyx | Mar 11 2010, 07:17 PM Post #9 |
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Well, the players who are all awesome and stuff always talked about how doing the "Micro" thing was totally necessary to winning. I was reading this one big super site that talked about "kspm." Key Strokes Per Second. So basically, how many commands you're issuing to your units and buildings per minute. Players of our caliber tend to average about NINE key strokes per minute. The people who play online a bunch tend to average about 100-200 per minute. When you watch their youtube videos fo themselves killing an opponent with Mutalisks in 11 minutes... yeah, it totally looks like they're TYPING a super dissertation thing. It's crazy. Let's them build units and buildings about 50% faster than us, and allows them to take out our armies with armies that are like half as big, because it's all perfectly coordinated. But yeah... for US... with our NINE keystrokes per minute... yeah, we don't know how to kill carrier fleets. Not really. I mean... I know I'm certainly not capable of doing that kind of awemeness... Maybe y'all are, but... No, I play protoss for a reason, and it's because once you have your carrier fleet, you can just tell it to move across the board and you don't have to manage it at all. Our strategies involve having ONE kind of unit massproduced. Or if we're really going all out awesome... we might have 3 kinds of units being mass produced and mobbed. But the lockdown and EMP and Valkyrie was what the websites all talked about when they were doing their big encyclopedias of doom. |
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| ender42 | Mar 15 2010, 09:23 AM Post #10 |
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Ok. I have played a few more times with the Zerg and so far it seems that it goes as follows. If you want to go for the quick kill, a Zergling rush is still the fastest. However, people are catching on to that and there are plenty of ways to slow it down. If you want to wait another minute, then a Hydralisk swarm should be able to do some major damage. In the end, due to the speed of building and unit production, a Mutalisk swam can be almost as devastating as a Carrier. This seems to be my normal MO lately: Build as many Drones as I can for gathering, throw a couple of Overlords in when I need them, and every 5th or 6th drone, build a structure like a Spawning Pool (Zerglings) or Evolution Chamber (upgrade Hatchery to Lair) to let me build the advanced structures. Keep building Drones and a few Zerglings for defense, and as soon as I have 300 minerals build a 2nd base and start gathering there too. By this time I should have at least 2-4 Extractors with 4 Drones each to get my vespene up. As soon as my first base is upgraded to a Lair, build a Hydralisk Den and a Spire to let me build Hydralisks and Mutalisks and send a few Zerglings to check on my opponent. If he isn't about to attack me, then I build as many Mutalisk as I can and send them his way. If he is sending troops my way, I build Hydralisk because they are faster unless he is sending only ground troops. Very few PvP matches will last long enough for people to be upgrading stuff. Most of the time you get hit with a pretty good rush in the first 5 minutes. In a 2v2 game, watch out for teams of Zerg doing a double Zergling rush on the same player. It can wipe you out in the first 3 minutes... Here are ways that people are getting around the Zergling rush. Terrans are best at it, they just build a bunch of Supply Depots at the entrance points. The new Supply Depots have a feature where they can be flattened down into the ground to allow your troops to pass over them. That way you basically have gates that you can open at will, or close to keep your opponents out. Build a couple of Bunkers on the back side of them and take out the Zerglings as they try to attack the Depots. For the Protoss, I have not seen a good tactic yet for avoiding a Zergling rush. They don't really have as good a building to use as a gate, but a group of Zealots can do a pretty good amount of damage to Zerglings. I will research that and see what I can come up with. As for the Zerg, a Zergling rush can be countered with another Zergling rush. So far that is about all I can find. The Terrans are the best suited for it since they have the new Depots that can act as gates and have ranged units as their base offensive units. However, later in the match the Terrans get outpaced by Mutalisks because it takes a long time to get any air units built. Does anyone have any specific questions that they would like for me to answer? Any new units or buildings that you want to know about? Any strategy ideas or questions? Please let me know and I will do my best to find out for you. So far the only question has been about Carriers and I have not been able to find a good answer for that one. It seems that they are the end-game unit for Protoss and are still a little too strong. |
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| Onyx | Mar 15 2010, 11:22 AM Post #11 |
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A) What buildings are necessary to build Banelings? Or what upgrades, or whatevs? 2) What buildings and things are necessary to build Warp Prisms? Cuz from reading about them, those are like one of my favorite units of all time it sounds like. Brute) Have you ever gotten to build or see some one else build one of the Protoss MOTHERSHIPS? Or whatever they're called? Cuz that was kinda rad, at least in the articles about them. I mean, with the mothership + the Walkers, you've got Independence Day AND War of the Worlds... IV) The new Seige tanks for the Terrans. Seen them or used them yet? Five) Still no evidence of the Zerg/Protoss hybrid race, huh? |
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| ender42 | Mar 15 2010, 02:14 PM Post #12 |
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1) There is a specific building that you have to build to be able to morph your Zerglings into Banelings. It is available after building an Evolution Chamber, and it is called a Baneling Nest (or something). Can't remember right off-hand. In order to create Banelings, just make some Zerglings and then select them. There is an option to morph them, it costs 25 mineral and 25 vespene, takes about 15 seconds or so. b) I have not tried the Warp Prisms yet. They look like basic troop transport with the fun extra that they can also be used as a temporary Pylon or something. They do not appear to have any offensive capabilities at all, I will check them out tonight or tomorrow and verify. iii) Motherships are something else I have not had the chance to try out yet. Next time I play Protoss I will give it a shot and let you know what I get. Four) The new Siege Tanks look pretty similar to the old ones, the main difference is that they can now hit units directly adjacent to them so a single Zergling can no longer take out a Siege Tank. Last) No, there is still no evidence of any kind of 4th race. Remember, the Beta is only multiplayer mode. I have no idea what might be revealed in the Story mode. Perhaps with the Zerg and Protoss editions of the game we will see something about it, or they might be saving it for Starcraft 3. |
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| Onyx | Mar 15 2010, 06:37 PM Post #13 |
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Question # firehydrant) Is there an "air attack only" variant of the Hydralisk? I've always wondered ever since they introduced the Lurker in Brood War if they were going to have an option to morph into a Hydralisk that launches powerful anti-aircraft whammers but that can't touch ground units. Anything like that? |
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| Onyx | Mar 15 2010, 06:40 PM Post #14 |
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Or what about an anti-air or can-attack-both variant of the Ultralisk? Maybe an Ultralisk with giant jumping legs so that it can run up, leap into the air, and latch onto the Carrier or Battleship, drag it to the ground, and start ripping away at it with it's giant claws! RAWR!! Have a giant jumping scythe-armed TICK, muf!@#$%as!! |
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| ender42 | Mar 15 2010, 07:04 PM Post #15 |
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Ok, to answer your question # insanity, there is no ground unit that can only attack air. For any of the races. The only ones that can only attack air are some of the air units. Back to your previous questions, I played with Protoss again tonight and found out these facts: The Mothership is very expensive and you can only have 1 at a time. The weapons on this unit are nothing special, it is fairly weak. It does however have 2 pretty useful abilities. One of them allows you to call a group of friendly units to the mothership immediately and warp them to that location. The other ability opens a black hole (void) in an area that insta-kills most units and will stay in that spot and eat anything that comes near it. As I understand it, it should also temporarily lock down air units as well, so it might be a counter to a carrier. I have not tested that theory yet. Warp Prisms are only semi-useful because like I said before, they have no weapons. They are troop transport and can act as a temporary Pylon. This is useful it you want to build a forward base quickly near the enemy, drop one of these while you are building photon cannons and a real pylon and have a fun little mini-base. Anyway, there are some other changes that were made. Zerg Overlords, the units that give you points to control units, are no longer detectors (see clocked or burrowed units). There is now an Overseer that is much faster to accomplish this. Good strategy against Protoss is to build one early, otherwise Dark Templar can be devastating since they are perma-cloaked. Keep the questions coming. I just found that you CAN build a custom game and play it against the AI. This gives me the chance to build stuff up and experiment, something I had not really been able to do before. |
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| Onyx | Mar 15 2010, 08:07 PM Post #16 |
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And remember that as Protoss you can set your unit-maker-buildings to beam in their units anywhere in your power-grid. That's the real awesomeness of the Warp Prism. Not just guerilla base construction, but guerilla unit-creation too... |
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| ender42 | Mar 15 2010, 10:20 PM Post #17 |
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Yup. You can turn your Gateways (where you produce Zealots and stuff) into a Warp Gate instead. Using that, you can produce units more quickly and have them appear anywhere that is covered by a Pylon (or Warp Prism). |
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| Onyx | Mar 15 2010, 10:29 PM Post #18 |
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Oh. Didn't realize it was only the Gateway. THought it was all unit-makers. Still rad sounding. |
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| ender42 | Mar 16 2010, 03:19 PM Post #19 |
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Pretty sure it is only the Gateway. When you use this ability, you actually convert the Gateway to a Warp Gate. Then when you use it to produce a unit you select the unit and then select the target for where you want it to drop. It build much faster, but then has about a 40 second or so cooldown period before you can use it to produce any units again. Since you can only produce 1 unit at a time this way, it might be better to leave the Gateway alone and just use it normally. That way you can still fill up the queue and not have to keep switching back to it to micro-manage. So, should tonight be a Terran night or another Protoss night? What questions do we have? |
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| ender42 | Mar 16 2010, 09:24 PM Post #20 |
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Ok. Played with the Terrans again tonight. Really fun unit for them is the Thor. This is the really massive unit that gets built at the factory, can attack ground and air. The most fun about it is that it can be set to attack buildings with a special attack. It will focus its attack on the building for about 10 seconds or so and do 100 damage (I think) which is a bit more than usual. Get a group of about 5-6 of these and you can take out a Nexus/Command Center/Hatchery in 1 wave. Aside from that, dropping a nuke with a Ghost still does massive damage. The animation for it is a lot different and fun to watch. Also, the Terran Command center has 2 possible upgrades. You can either turn it into a Planetary Fortress and allow it to attack but prevents it from lifting off, or turn it into an Orbital Command. Orbital Command lets you do the usual Sweeper Scan (reveals area on the map) and it has 2 new abilities. One of them lets you increase the amount of supplies provided by a Supply Depot by 8 (ups it to 18 instead of 10), the other ability lets you summon a M.U.L.E. unit that is like a temporary SCV. It takes longer to harvest minerals but will gather more in one shot and only lasts 90 seconds. The M.U.L.E. unit costs 50 energy but can be worth it, I also don't think it requires any supply points. The Sensor Tower is a new building that will basically draw a big circle around itself. Any enemy units within this area will show as red dots. It does not get rid of the Fog of War or show what the enemy units or buildings are, but you can see them moving or where they are on the map. It actually covers a pretty large area and can be pretty handy for detecting enemy attacks in advance. |
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